officials are calling ebel former 211 gang member. i read past statements by the head of the gang task force saying once a gang member joins its group, you don't really get out in any way other than getting killed. do you buy that? is that kind of hype? >> oh, no, i don't buy that he's a former member. i mean, lot of times this is the stuff that's for life. i got out, when you get out, you've got to prove yourself, you've got to be working with law enforcement, talk to them in some way, shape or form or trying to get other kids out. there's no evidence proving this guy's done any of that. >> why do you think they would be calling him a former gang member, then? >> because a lot of times when a guy leaves prison, a lot of institutions basically start to refer to them as former. if they don't get in any trouble in six months, even up to a year, they basically take him off the list. they take him off the radar. a lot of times these guys come back later on. you can stay quiet for six months to a year if you're on probation or parole. >> t.j., i appreciate your expertise. vicky as well, thank you for being with us.